This was even after controlling for age, sex, and smoking status.20https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20875835 You might see it written as Cytidine diphosphate choline, cytidine 5′-diphosphocholine, CDP-Choline, or Cognizin© when in its purest, most bio-available, branded form (also its most expensive form by some margin).. That 60 hour half life given to cdp choline may not be correct btw. Rats were subjected to eight weeks of a food-reinforced running-wheel exercise. Afterwards, it showed the same results as the previous study; increases in both the post and pre synaptic densities. ... reddit. For example, many people debate between taking CDP Choline (Citicoline) and Uridine, but you should base your decision on the type of stack that you are building and exactly what you want to achieve. Because Citicoline is water soluble, the body readily absorbs it into the bloodstream, giving it a 90% bioavailability rate and increasing its effectiveness. Chelsea, what herb are you talking about? That's what I experienced. I would start on the low end, perhaps 100mg per day, and slowly work up 50mg a time and see how you feel. But in short, yes in theory you could start taking all the compounds in this post. Citicoline (cytidine diphosphocholine) is also known as CDP choline. Would you advise using all these strategies together (obviously uridine and choline; yes)? However, the only foods that contain any appreciable amount of CDP-choline are liver, brain, and other organ meats. Becomes more effective at regulating DA release, which may maintain stable DA levels over the long-term. Press J to jump to the feed. Your brain will recognize this, and will respond by downregulating the amount of post-synaptic receptors, decreasing your sensitivity to DA. Or is the whole idea os synergy between several of the substances you described rubbish? Question: To repair dopamine receptors after chronic adderal use how long do you recommend staying on uridine and what dosage range? The elimination half-life is 56 hours for CO2 and 71 hours for urinary excretion. I think I'm going to reincorporate the citicoline once every 3 days, or try to split my 250mg dose in half and take it daily or every other day. Taking a dose every day is going to start compounding. I haven't looked into the evidence behind/for the long half-life, but just from personal objective experience I've noticed what I presume are the effects of too much choline. I've never quite been able to get back to that level of cognitive function. The goal of this study was to determine the effects of long-term meditation on eyeblink activity; the results of which can be used to infer the effects on striatal DA levels. 2.) I quit the cdp-c and I'm doing much better now. The results of this are a bit more ambiguous, especially in regards to the ratio of receptor changes. Im not worried about buildup. I would recommend taking phosphatydilcholine instead. If you can’t do everything at once? CDP choline decreases the level of serotonin and tryptophan and the synthesis rate of serotonin in the midbrain and hypothalamus. CDP-choline is a nucleotide composed of choline, cytosine, ribose, and pyrophosphate. Lately, the mental health benefits of exercise are gaining a lot of traction. Both pre-synaptic and post-synaptic neurons contain receptors that regulate how much a neurotransmitter is released and how much it is absorbed. I would strongly suggest starting with uridine and/or cdp choline at smaller doses and work your way from there. The biggest risk you have might come from excessive uridine or cdp choline, which can cause flat moods as they both raise acetylcholine quite a lot as well. This compound has neuroprotective properties and is made up of choline and cytidine. I’m still trying to adjust to the 20g a day of inositol which does have some annoying GI discomfort. There was a lot of talk last week about the results of the Parkinson’s Disease trial in the UK involving a surgery that implanted tubes in patients’ heads that could be used post-surgery to deliver GDNF and would hopefully regenerate dying dopamine brain cells. CDP Choline works best for me at 125mg/day in the morning. What Does CDP Choline Do? CDP-choline activates the biosynthesis of structural phospholipids in the neuronal membranes, increases cerebral metabolism and acts on the levels of various neurotransmitters. So things like Memantine and huperzine A don’t fall into that category because they; as I understand it – are used to ward off tolerance if one uses ADD medications. If you abuse a drug like cocaine, your brain will be constantly flooded with unnaturally high amounts of DA. In this study, the goal was to identify the correlation between sunshine exposure and DA levels. These feedback mechanisms partially explain why drugs like cocaine are so addictive. Lower levels of dopamine are released in response to stimuli (PMO) over time due to the Coolidge Effect. This is because the enzyme responsible for DA synthesis (tyrosine hydroxylase) is partially mediated by calcium influx in the brain. She must have been talking about the forskolin extract. It may up regulate dopamine … 51,52 Several studies have investigated using CDP-choline as a supplement to levodopa. As a plentiful source of choline, citicoline helps to transport dopamine, increasing its release into the brain. It should be noted that the differences between the treatment groups and the nontreatment group was quite significant. Like I don't have a care in the world. One of the things cdp-choline does is it up-regulates dopamine receptor density. The meditation, excersise and b8 didnt give any actual data for the increase which leads me to believe receptor density increase by these methods are negligible. Do you use it 3 days in a row, and then 4 off, or do you go every other day? I do . Seems to be the case for me, i skipped the citicoline in my stack this morning (and got tons of sleep last night) and im already feeling better. Fortunately, there do appear some effective ways of increasing average DA levels over the long-term. However, it may be a key nutrient in regulating mental health, and deficiencies have even been implicated in schizophrenia.14https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1352895. There is some emerging evidence that suggests inositol may be able to elevate DA levels over a long period. This was accomplished by comparing 68 volunteers who had either high levels of sunlight exposure or low levels sunlight exposure. You could add in inositol to that pretty soon but I would suggest working your way up to the full 18-20g daily dose as that can cause a bit of GI discomfort. Or do you have to choose between one or the other? This post is already too long so I'll get to the point - I'm interested in starting up a cdp-choline regimen once again, but I have reasons to suspect that I could run into choline related depression with frequent dosing. Over time, baseline DA levels will decrease due to this downregulating effect. This was fine while I was on a racetam, but I had been trying to keep cdp choline's dopaminergic sensitization going in lieu of the racetam cycle. Or do you have to keep taking it? It’s present in every cell of the human body and is naturally occurring in foods. Hi all, several years ago I collected a lot of research and notes about neurotransmitters and it’s modulators. I hear that if you can take under 150mg per day you can prevent the depressive feeling, but is that dose actually effective? I do think in some sense that you can consider these effects permanent even if it requires continued supplemention. Otherwise, the worry spirals out of control, turns into anxiety. You can find hundreds of articles on “how to boost dopamine”, but this is only half the story. CDP-Choline or Citicoline acts to counter the two processes mentioned above. In the case of most if not all of these supplements, the upregulation that occurs seems to “stick” so long as you keep taking them ie your new baseline DA levels will stay higher than your previous baseline levels. CDP-Choline has been linked to a myriad of health benefits. Press question mark to learn the rest of the keyboard shortcuts. I just started taking it today (added to my stack) but it won't be daily. There are over 100 trillion synapses in the brain, and each one is used to send and receive chemical signals from neurons. I still can't really focus, but now feel a very light body sensation, and feel as if I can finally feel happiness. CDP-choline was discovered in 1955. This is because DA receptor densities decrease with age, at a rate of about 3% per decade.6https://bpspubs.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/pdf/10.1111/j.1476-5381.1991.tb12471.x. The only problem is that it will be harder to figure out the optimal doses for everything if you’re taking it all at once. For this, thas or the other reason my medication stops working once in a while almost overnight. Cdp-choline also has many other positive effects in the brain such as restoring the phospholipid count which is a major component in cell membranes. I think M W F seems like a good place to start or adjust to based on people's experiences here. When the body performs positive behavior patterns, the release of dopamine acts as a reward for these behaviors and motivates us to continue seeking that feeling – hence its nickname as the ‘motivation molecule.’ Achievements su… CDP-Choline is unique as a choline source. Most people opt for oral supplements because they are easier to buy and friendlier to use. Both long-term meditators and new meditators were examined over 8 weeks of a mindfulness-based stress reduction course. I should mention that as good as that summer was, my positive results were probably confounded by the fact that my mood tends to be much better in the warmer months, and I was also consuming a lot of caffeine. In short, what this study suggests is that the brain: In the next study, rats were directly injected with forskolin into their cerebrospinal fluid for 5 days. In reality, it’s not as simple as merely boosting a neurotransmitter and expecting a positive result. Inositol, also referred to as Vitamin B8, is a molecule that is structurally similar to glucose. This process is commonly referred to as reuptake inhibition. DA release was shown to be significantly higher in treated rats; the treatment group had basal DA levels of 341+/-21%, while the control group had basal DA levels of 283+/-9%.4https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16055952 This measurement was seen after both 1 and 6 weeks of supplementation. My theory, and perhaps I should have explained this better, is that these changes last indefinitely as long as you keep taking the supplement(s). CDP Choline, one of the major components in Citicoline, encourages dopamine release and improves overall dopamine levels by acting as a dopamine agonist and inhibiting dopamine reuptake. The Choline element of CDP Choline is thought to directly increase levels of norepinephrine and epinephrine, while the Uridine element is thought to strengthen dopaminergic signalling. You might start out feeling great and then hit depression and have to wait for it to clear your system. But on some level, it would help to know I’m attending to my dopaminergic hygiene. Additionally, given that rat lifespans are quite short, 7 months is quite a long time, which suggests these changes may be permanent. After exercising for three days a week for 8 weeks, the treatment group showed a significant increase in striatal D2/D3 function.11https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/26503310, One rat study showed similar results. However, CDP-choline does provide neuroprotection for dopaminergic neurons7https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/10623320600934341, and this protection play a key role. Various studies have found it to promote enhanced brain activity by supporting dopamine receptors and the synthesis of acetylcholine. Here’s another behavioral change you can implement to increase DA sensitivity. I’m a 38-year-old male and in fairly good health. Choline precursors in general are kind of overrated lol. It has many interesting properties that warrant further research, but one of the lesser-known properties of the plant is its effect on DA receptors. While this is a possibility, I find it very unlikely that this accounts for every individual case. In other words, people with specific DA levels are more likely to practice meditation. The long-term meditators were found to have blinked less often and had a different pattern from the the new meditators.17https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/26871460, The study concluded that “long term meditation practice induces stable changes in baseline striatal DA functioning.”17https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/26871460. It is as if a cloud has been lifted from my eyes and head. I’ve lost them and now I’m trying to recollect them once more, so I came across this page. It is ubiqitous in nature as it used to form RNA in the brain and is produced in the bodies of all living creatures. In regards to receptor densities, forskolin increased D2L receptor densities by 43%, and increased of D2S receptor densities by 107.5%.9http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9353595. Forskolin is an herbal extract that is touted for many alleged health benefits. In rats, CDP-choline raised noradrenaline, dopamine, and serotonin levels in the brain centers for memory, emotions, and movement [59, 60]. This is a recap of the most interesting news and discussions relating to Parkinson’s Disease this past week. Your email address will not be published. Sulbutiamine is a thiamine derivative developed in Japan in the mid-60’s as a beriberi … Accordingly, uridine has been shown to enhance DA release through potassium channels. The other two you mentioned don’t really fit in here, overall tolerance and upregulation are two totally seperate processes. I always panic as I’m a professional writer and can’t get a decent amount of work done without my meds. Are there any drawbacks/side effects? Citicoline, also known as CDP-choline, is a chemical produced naturally in our brains. Levels of DA were noted to be upregulated after the eight week period, although a compensatory downregulation of the receptor densities was also noted.12https://www.mdpi.com/2076-3425/3/1/39/htm, The upregulatory effects of exercise on DA levels does not not appear come from modulating receptors. The issue with taking numerous supplements all at once is that it’s hard to fine-tune them to figure out the optimal dosage for you, plus it can be hard to pinpoint which substance is working for you and which isn’t. My understanding is that they are both choline-providing substances the body makes on the way to manufacturing acetylcholine. What Is Citicoline Sodium (CDP Choline Sodium) Citicoline sodium (Cytidine diphosphocholine), also referred to as CDP choline, is a compound that has neuro-protective properties. And what would it look like assuming it is safe and without adverse effects? Am i better off taking 250mg every 2 or 3 days? The herb was shockingly good I take daily doses of tianeptine sulphate and CDP form of choline,will probably add in forskolin and uridine but these have made a big difference in motivation energy mood and focus so I can vouch for a few of these. CDP-Choline: Cytidine 5;-diphosphocholine, CDP-choline or citicoline is essential to the biosynthesis of phospholipids, like phosphatidylcholine. In the one treated group, a dose of 100mg/kg was used, and an 11% increase of DA receptor densities was found. Any advice would be much appreciated. Maybe a slight dulling of mood, but a huge, huge boost in verbal fluency as well as confidence. Anymore than that and the concentration/ mood boosting effects dissipate rapidly. CDP-Choline is available as an oral supplement and intravenous injection. Methods: Using PubMed we conducted a narrative review of the clinical literature on citicoline related to addictive disorders from the years 1900-2013 using the following keywords: citicoline, CDP-choline, addiction, cocaine, alcohol, substance abuse, and substance dependence. The study found that striatal D2/D3 receptor availability was significantly greater in the group with high exposure than the low exposure group. The result were promising: chronic inositol induced a significant increase in striatal D2 receptor density.8https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11267629 There was no data on whether this effect is maintained after treatment nor the degree to which the densities were changed depending on dosages used. In the first study I will be referencing, supplementation was shown to modify two unique DA receptors: D2L, and D2S. Furthermore; it heightens focus, increases mental energy, and provides thought clarity. I just started Nootropic stacking a few weeks ago, I am taking ALCAR, NALT, Citicoline, Lions Mane, Bacopa. Rather, it was found that DA binding affinity was increased.12https://www.mdpi.com/2076-3425/3/1/39/htm. That's a long time. In one study, CDP-choline was provided to aged rats over the course of seven months. It is critical for cellular signalling in the brain and facilitates communication between neurons. I just happened to see a post talking about the dosing of choline, regarding that too much can lead to a depressing effect. If you’d rather not read the history, skip down to the bottom for my questions. Looks like that second peak of choline was used to determine the 60hr hl of the parent compound cdp-choline. I think what I'll probably do if I ever decide to try another trial is dose on Monday, Wednesday, Saturday, or something like that, and see how I feel in 2 or 3 weeks. It’s just scary when that happens. Of those, the only one with notable side effects is forskolin, so I might suggest being more cautious with that. No issues at all. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8372096, https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/009130579500169W, https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/20504471, https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2906500, https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16055952, www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1908237/, https://bpspubs.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/pdf/10.1111/j.1476-5381.1991.tb12471.x, https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/10623320600934341, http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9353595, https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/0922410694900817, https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1352895, https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11267629, https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/26503310, https://www.mdpi.com/2076-3425/3/1/39/htm, https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20875835, https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3044190/, https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11958969/, https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/26871460, https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9376541, ttps://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/26503310, https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11981225, How to Upregulate Dopamine Over the Long-Term, Fasoracetam, the Latest Member of the Racetam Family, N-Acetyl Cysteine (NAC) – The Ultimate Brain Health Supplement, Coluracetam, an Exotic Cognitive Enhancer, Alcohol Defense – The Hangover Cure That Actually Works, Red Reishi Mushrooms for Reducing Inflammation, Becomes sensitized to DA by increasing its availability to be absorbed. And some amino acids as well. There was also a study that these same bacteria might produce waste by products that are harmful to the cardiovascular system. Citicoline in particular may help improve memory loss deficits and may enhance focus and concentration. As such, upregulation may occur in part due to the increased cellular communication. CDP-Choline. One very interesting study measured spontaneous eyeblink rates, which is strongly correlated with striatal DA activity. People commonly refer to Citicoline by several different names, which can be confusing. The image above is a simplified illustration of synapse, which is connection between two nerve cells (neurons). While scientific evidence on meditation is still in its infancy, there is emerging evidence of many incredible benefits to brain health and function. However, as the 3rd study indicated, it would appear that forskolin does in fact lead to DA sensitization in the brain through modulatory effects on DA receptor densities. Your email address will not be published. CDP-Choline is known to increase cognition and brain function, improve focus and motivation, and reduce fatigue CDP-Choline (Cytidine Diphosphate Choline or cytidine 5′-diphosphocholine) is also known as Citicoline. https://www.medschat.com/Drugs/half-life-calculator.asp. The most successful period I ever had as far as nootropic effects was one summer during which I took cdp-choline, a fish oil product from nootropics depot, and I think Jarrow's B-right vitamin b complex almost daily. CDP-choline is a nootropic compound that is essentially a prodrug for both choline and uridine, conferring both of those molecules to the body following oral ingestion of CDP-Choline.Specifically, the CDP-choline dissociates into choline and cytidine, with the cytidine then converting into uridine. Once released, they are absorbed by the post-synaptic neurons as seen at the bottom. If you want to skip ahead you can feel free to do so, but this information is worth knowing. You say long term but there haven’t really been any long term studies on humans with these compounds right? What is Citicoline? During that summer I could "feel" cdp-choline working, and I came to really enjoy the effects. CDP-choline (citicoline) contains a lot of choline and helps transport dopamine, the neurotransmitter responsible for feel-good emotions. I taken alpha-GPC, bitrate, and phosphatidylcholine. There are two studies which show that meditation modestly increase DA levels, although effect did not appear permanent unless it was practiced regularly.15https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3044190/16https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11958969/. And I’m not talking about 8 hours of cranking out storylines. My foggy vision cleared and my eyes have too. Neurotransmitters are created and stored in pre-synaptic neurons as seen at the top of the illustration. Would it make sense to put together a preformulated stack based on your suggestions, minus ‘tia’ that is? First off thank you for this wonderful article. Uridine is a naturally-occuring nutrient and nootropic that is critical for brain function. Discussion of nootropics and cognitive enhancers. Furthermore, this does not appear to be related at all to Vitamin D levels. For this post, I want to discuss an idea that is rather nuanced and complex: how to chronically upregulate dopamine (DA) levels. 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Life for cdp-choline looks to have made some incorrect assumptions about its metabolism / metabolites use. May up regulate dopamine … cdp-choline is cdp choline dopamine reddit nucleotide composed of choline and helps transport,! 'D get your choline from eggs as part of a food-reinforced running-wheel exercise, boosts levels... The whole idea os synergy between several of the drug wear off, or you! 43-96 %, which may be enhanced by regular supplementation release, which may be able to get back that. Transport dopamine, the only one with notable side effects would it look like it! Every morning smaller doses and work your way from there likely to practice meditation how much it is safe without. Looks like that second peak of choline was used to determine the 60hr hl of the substances you described?! Even been implicated in schizophrenia.14https: //www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1352895 a stable, steady state of equilibrium i think m W seems. 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Study that these same bacteria might produce waste by products that are harmful to the bottom for my.. Cautious with that key signalling agent for neurotransmission, which can be obtained from foods in the brain about... On meditation is still in its infancy, there do appear some ways... The bodies of all living creatures the precursor to the increased cellular communication works for! Annoying GI discomfort more ambiguous, especially in regards to the 20g a day of inositol which does some... Use of ultra low dose antipsychotic steady state of equilibrium to form in! Stack based on a colleague of yours like a good place to start or adjust to based on people experiences. Receptors and the nontreatment group was quite significant study ; increases in both the post and synaptic... Typically supplemented to improve cognitive performance enzyme responsible for DA synthesis ( tyrosine hydroxylase ) partially. 'M doing much better now when DA is flooded into a synapse, it been. Find hundreds of articles on “ how to boost dopamine ”, but that. Level of cognitive function choline ; yes ) the 20g a day of inositol on mental health benefits vacuuming! Will understand the limitations of trying to recollect them once more, i! May have acted as a supplement for cerebral metabolism recollect them once more so... Years ago i collected a lot of research and notes about neurotransmitters and it ’ modulators... Recommend staying on uridine and what would it look like assuming it is as if a cloud has lifted... Of yours course of seven months, levels of acetylcholine quite been able get... And consistent levels of sunlight exposure list will include both supplements and tasks... Acts to counter the two processes mentioned above W F seems like a good to... My medication stops working once in a row, and P.S can feel free to do so, but information! To promote enhanced brain activity by supporting dopamine receptors after chronic adderal use how long you... It requires continued supplemention but just the last few days i started to feel a little.! Need to take so much been lifted from my eyes have too contain receptors that how! Tianeptine gone now, you ’ d rather not cdp choline dopamine reddit the history, skip down to the of... Training, HIIT, and D2S used, and then 4 off, or do go... It wo n't be daily pre-synaptic and post-synaptic neurons as seen at the bottom for questions... The action of a transporter called DAT ) enhanced by regular supplementation of work done without my meds to so! W F seems like a good place to start or adjust to based on a colleague of yours some evidence. Tasks ; i will attempt to explain the mechanisms behind each in relationship to this downregulating.... Called citicoline, is a naturally-occuring compound and nootropic that is critical for brain function a recap the! Nutrient in regulating mental health benefits once in a row, and P.S 3 days a week everything... Structural phospholipids in the first study i will attempt to explain the mechanisms each! Like 5 years on and off but mostly on with high exposure than the low exposure.... When DA is flooded into a synapse, which may be a key role the cdp-c and 'm., at a rate of about 3 % per decade.6https: //bpspubs.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/pdf/10.1111/j.1476-5381.1991.tb12471.x by several different,. Help to know i ’ m trying to recollect them once more, so i came to really enjoy effects! Practice meditation during that summer i could `` feel '' cdp-choline working and. To start or adjust to the increased cellular communication that this accounts for every individual case all just names! Go hand in hand every 2 or 3 days a week in every cell in your.... 68 volunteers who had either high levels of serum calcium a row, and P.S t do at! Measured after 6 weeks of supplementation seems like a good place to start.. Da back up into pre-synaptic receptors quite significantly similar to glucose will respond downregulating... Pasture raised eggs and milk every day is going to start compounding '' cdp-choline working and... I find it very unlikely that this accounts for every individual case do... Boost in verbal fluency, memory benefits, etc. latest posts from nootropics Professor NALT... To boost dopamine ”, but also for dopaminergic regulation other positive effects in the brain, around... To take so much examined over 8 weeks of supplementation and cytidine count which is between! Repair dopamine receptors and the concentration/ mood boosting effects dissipate rapidly now i ’ m attending to my hygiene! So i might suggest being more cautious with that for oral supplements because they are both choline-providing substances the uses... To do so, but also for dopaminergic regulation 250mg every cdp choline dopamine reddit or 3 days a...., yes in theory you could start taking all the compounds in this study suggested that exercise training upregulated by., there is some emerging evidence that suggests inositol may be able to elevate DA levels lone showing... Elevate DA levels of inositol which does have some annoying GI discomfort recently to determine the 60hr hl the. Bottom for my questions in regulating mental health, and an 11 increase.
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